Comments on: How to anger your customers http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/ Joe Ludwig's blog Thu, 05 Aug 2010 14:49:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Joe http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/comment-page-1/#comment-56806 Joe Thu, 01 Nov 2007 17:41:53 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/#comment-56806 The environment I was using ClearCase in was at HP working on an embedded system. We had about 300k lines of code total and only a couple branches. We also ran weekly builds rather than the at-least-once-a-day builds we run at FLS. I guess our number of labels wasn't large enough to cause trouble. The environment I was using ClearCase in was at HP working on an embedded system. We had about 300k lines of code total and only a couple branches. We also ran weekly builds rather than the at-least-once-a-day builds we run at FLS. I guess our number of labels wasn’t large enough to cause trouble.

]]> By: Lars http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/comment-page-1/#comment-56747 Lars Thu, 01 Nov 2007 14:25:04 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/#comment-56747 Interesting. I work in the financial industry and we had one group make the migration from ClearCase to Perforce partially because our ClearCase servers bogged down due to "too many" branches and labels. Interesting. I work in the financial industry and we had one group make the migration from ClearCase to Perforce partially because our ClearCase servers bogged down due to “too many” branches and labels.

]]> By: Joe http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/comment-page-1/#comment-23210 Joe Fri, 03 Aug 2007 00:13:26 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/#comment-23210 Whether the free alternatives are "better" or not is certainly debatable. FWIW, we've now moved perforce onto a new server and all the performance problems are gone. Whether the free alternatives are “better” or not is certainly debatable.

FWIW, we’ve now moved perforce onto a new server and all the performance problems are gone.

]]> By: Cam http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/comment-page-1/#comment-23103 Cam Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:37:45 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/#comment-23103 Subversion is brilliant, Previously I used CVS but now use Subversion which owns it. Eclipse is my favorite way to use Subversion. There is also a free Explorer Subversion plugin called Tortoise. But yeah why pay money for something that ain't cutting the mustard especially when there are better free alternatives? Subversion is brilliant, Previously I used CVS but now use Subversion which owns it.

Eclipse is my favorite way to use Subversion.

There is also a free Explorer Subversion plugin called Tortoise.

But yeah why pay money for something that ain’t cutting the mustard especially when there are better free alternatives?

]]> By: Joe http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/comment-page-1/#comment-16164 Joe Tue, 19 Jun 2007 05:46:56 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/#comment-16164 Labels are nice because they can be used to tag any set of files with the version of each file specified individually OR to tag the set of files in the repository at a specific point in time. There have been times when labeling a build as "this previous build plus this one changelist" has been handy. Of course most of the time a changelist number would be just fine and we will probably switch over eventually. If we had known labels were such a problem we would have never used them in the first place. My complaints are mostly about the crappy attitude we got from support, not the labels vs. changelist numbers debate. It's usually better to work with your tools instead of against them, and using labels in Perforce is certainly going against the grain. Labels are nice because they can be used to tag any set of files with the version of each file specified individually OR to tag the set of files in the repository at a specific point in time. There have been times when labeling a build as “this previous build plus this one changelist” has been handy. Of course most of the time a changelist number would be just fine and we will probably switch over eventually. If we had known labels were such a problem we would have never used them in the first place.

My complaints are mostly about the crappy attitude we got from support, not the labels vs. changelist numbers debate. It’s usually better to work with your tools instead of against them, and using labels in Perforce is certainly going against the grain.

]]> By: Bill http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/comment-page-1/#comment-16162 Bill Tue, 19 Jun 2007 05:36:42 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/#comment-16162 We have had no problems at all with Perforce technical support, in fact they have always been the most responsive and helpful of our tool vendors. We investigated Labels and Changelists when setting up a continuous build system and quickly determined that changelists were the way to go. Perforce Labels are used to tag a set of files with the version of each file specified individually, not just the latest tip of your development branch. We have had no problems at all with Perforce technical support, in fact they have always been the most responsive and helpful of our tool vendors.

We investigated Labels and Changelists when setting up a continuous build system and quickly determined that changelists were the way to go.

Perforce Labels are used to tag a set of files with the version of each file specified individually, not just the latest tip of your development branch.

]]> By: Joe http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/comment-page-1/#comment-7934 Joe Sat, 12 May 2007 16:51:53 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/#comment-7934 The two big reasons we're not using subversion are: <ol> <li>Half of our users are artists. Perforce is already techy and scary to them. Subversion is even more techy and scary.</li> <li>I hadn't heard of subversion when we started the project in 2002.</li> </ol> I assume there are some GUI front ends out there that can help with #1. The "edit whatever you want and we'll figure out what you changed at commit time" aspect of subversion certainly helps all by itself. (Though I fear the number of accidental changes they would submit to the depot.) And of course only a time machine can change #2. :) The two big reasons we’re not using subversion are:

  1. Half of our users are artists. Perforce is already techy and scary to them. Subversion is even more techy and scary.
  2. I hadn’t heard of subversion when we started the project in 2002.

I assume there are some GUI front ends out there that can help with #1. The “edit whatever you want and we’ll figure out what you changed at commit time” aspect of subversion certainly helps all by itself. (Though I fear the number of accidental changes they would submit to the depot.)

And of course only a time machine can change #2. :)

]]> By: Petros Amiridis http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/comment-page-1/#comment-7781 Petros Amiridis Fri, 11 May 2007 19:40:43 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/#comment-7781 I don't want to sound a wise guy, but what are the benefits of using such an expensive version control system instead for example Subversion. Is it worth the money? This is an honest question, since I have been using Subversion and haven't tried another version control system. I don’t want to sound a wise guy, but what are the benefits of using such an expensive version control system instead for example Subversion. Is it worth the money? This is an honest question, since I have been using Subversion and haven’t tried another version control system.

]]> By: Michael Dubakov http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/comment-page-1/#comment-7599 Michael Dubakov Thu, 10 May 2007 14:30:05 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/#comment-7599 Why don't you use Subversion? It is great SC system, pretty fast and stable. We are using it for 2 years without such problems and it supports labels just good :) Why don’t you use Subversion? It is great SC system, pretty fast and stable. We are using it for 2 years without such problems and it supports labels just good :)

]]> By: Ian Landsman's Weblog v2.0 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/comment-page-1/#comment-4581 Ian Landsman's Weblog v2.0 Sat, 14 Apr 2007 18:45:50 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/11/how-to-anger-your-customers/#comment-4581 <strong>Feature Arrogance</strong> Joe has an interesting post about feature arrogance, relating to my post the other day on features. His story is also a good example of poor customer service, especially for a product with a $40,000 price tag. Hey, maybe it's time to raise my pric... Feature Arrogance

Joe has an interesting post about feature arrogance, relating to my post the other day on features. His story is also a good example of poor customer service, especially for a product with a $40,000 price tag. Hey, maybe it's time to raise my pric…

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