Comments on: Living in a bubble http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/ Joe Ludwig's blog Sun, 01 Jan 2012 19:08:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: nilretain.org http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-6176 nilretain.org Sat, 28 Apr 2007 21:59:37 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/#comment-6176 <strong>"Scripting Languages" vs. "High Level Languages"</strong> Recently, Joe wrote in his blog: As I see it there are three kinds of languages in this world: Hard to write, but blazingly fast: C and C++, or even assembly if you’re really hard-core Easy to write, but so... “Scripting Languages” vs. “High Level Languages”

Recently, Joe wrote in his blog: As I see it there are three kinds of languages in this world: Hard to write, but blazingly fast: C and C++, or even assembly if you’re really hard-core Easy to write, but so…

]]> By: Joe http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-4851 Joe Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:07:02 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/#comment-4851 One of our programmers used to work in Flash when he was working on casual games. It's apparently a real pain. <a href="http://www.puzzlepirates.com/" rel="nofollow">Puzzle Pirates</a> was written entirely in Java, and it works fine for them. Their new project is using Java for the servers and Flash for the client (mostly because the flash can run without any kind of download.) I'm sure their programmers are hating it by now. One of our programmers used to work in Flash when he was working on casual games. It’s apparently a real pain.

Puzzle Pirates was written entirely in Java, and it works fine for them. Their new project is using Java for the servers and Flash for the client (mostly because the flash can run without any kind of download.) I’m sure their programmers are hating it by now.

]]> By: Patrick Peak http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-4850 Patrick Peak Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:49:57 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/#comment-4850 Flash games are certainly going to have a lot more 'programming' in them. But the vast majority of flash usage is going to be similar to what we have on the homepage of my companies' site: http://www.browsermedia.com Just a nice graphical slideshow/semi-interactive replacement for what might otherwise be static images. There is some scripting going on there I'm sure (one of our graphic designers did it), but in my brief experience with ActionScript (Flash's scripting language) it has large # of issues which make it troublesome to build larger programs with. I have been following (in a my own bubble way) game development in Java, mostly because its easier to wrap my head around. I will be curious to see if it ever gets to the point where its suitable for production games. I know Sun has made a big effort in the past few years to make java more suitable for desktop environments (after focusing so long on the server). See http://www.java.com/en/games/ for some of their current focus. Flash games are certainly going to have a lot more ‘programming’ in them. But the vast majority of flash usage is going to be similar to what we have on the homepage of my companies’ site: http://www.browsermedia.com

Just a nice graphical slideshow/semi-interactive replacement for what might otherwise be static images. There is some scripting going on there I’m sure (one of our graphic designers did it), but in my brief experience with ActionScript (Flash’s scripting language) it has large # of issues which make it troublesome to build larger programs with.

I have been following (in a my own bubble way) game development in Java, mostly because its easier to wrap my head around. I will be curious to see if it ever gets to the point where its suitable for production games. I know Sun has made a big effort in the past few years to make java more suitable for desktop environments (after focusing so long on the server). See http://www.java.com/en/games/ for some of their current focus.

]]> By: Joe http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-4794 Joe Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:03:20 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/#comment-4794 I guess when I think "flash" I think "flash game". Those all have code in them. I bet you're right. Most of those flash job ads are probably for the graphic design side of the product. Before starting in the game industry I worked at a company that was using Java on the server side (and C++ for the clients.) It worked pretty well even in '98 because we could control the machines it was running on. I know the tools and VMs have gotten far better in the last 9 years. :) I guess when I think “flash” I think “flash game”. Those all have code in them. I bet you’re right. Most of those flash job ads are probably for the graphic design side of the product.

Before starting in the game industry I worked at a company that was using Java on the server side (and C++ for the clients.) It worked pretty well even in ’98 because we could control the machines it was running on. I know the tools and VMs have gotten far better in the last 9 years. :)

]]> By: Patrick Peak http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-4788 Patrick Peak Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:11:52 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/#comment-4788 Take this from a 'web' programmers perspective. Flash is a different animal than other 'programming' languages. In most cases, its not even programmed, its used by graphic designer types who are using it to generate high impact movies or animations. You can do quite a lot with it without really getting to deep into the programming language. On a day to day basis, I'm working primarily in Java, and in the web world for server side programming it is king. Linux even more so. Installation of the JVM is completely irrelevant when clients are running nothing more than their browser, and all the java is on the server. Java might not be fast enough for the needs of game programming right now, but the language efficiency benefits of having garbage collection, etc mean that might not always be the case. JVMs are quite a bit faster now than they used to be, and there is little reason to think that they won't continue on that path. Take this from a ‘web’ programmers perspective.

Flash is a different animal than other ‘programming’ languages. In most cases, its not even programmed, its used by graphic designer types who are using it to generate high impact movies or animations. You can do quite a lot with it without really getting to deep into the programming language.

On a day to day basis, I’m working primarily in Java, and in the web world for server side programming it is king. Linux even more so. Installation of the JVM is completely irrelevant when clients are running nothing more than their browser, and all the java is on the server.

Java might not be fast enough for the needs of game programming right now, but the language efficiency benefits of having garbage collection, etc mean that might not always be the case. JVMs are quite a bit faster now than they used to be, and there is little reason to think that they won’t continue on that path.

]]> By: Rich Bryant http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-4716 Rich Bryant Tue, 17 Apr 2007 13:45:36 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/#comment-4716 It's not quite "windows only" - mono is now reliable on ubuntu and (with quite a lot of directory hacking) pretty stable on OSX. I must try it on OpenSolaris, actually. It’s not quite “windows only” – mono is now reliable on ubuntu and (with quite a lot of directory hacking) pretty stable on OSX.

I must try it on OpenSolaris, actually.

]]> By: Joe http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-4665 Joe Mon, 16 Apr 2007 18:14:34 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/#comment-4665 Trying to keep a foot in every world is likely to cause paralysis by analysis. We stick to our comfortable bubbles because it reduces the problem space to something our brains can actually deal with. A quick monster job search for jobs in Seattle yields: Ruby - 24 jobs C++ - 45 jobs PHP - 59 jobs Flash - 93 jobs C# - 426 jobs Java - 511 jobs So apparently, in terms of a person's ability to find a job, Java is kicking C++'s ass. Hell, even <em>flash</em> is kicking C++'s ass. Of course the two year old windows-only C# is coming up fast, so that sort of blows a hole in the "Microsoft is dead" theory. Trying to keep a foot in every world is likely to cause paralysis by analysis. We stick to our comfortable bubbles because it reduces the problem space to something our brains can actually deal with.

A quick monster job search for jobs in Seattle yields:
Ruby – 24 jobs
C++ – 45 jobs
PHP – 59 jobs
Flash – 93 jobs
C# – 426 jobs
Java – 511 jobs

So apparently, in terms of a person’s ability to find a job, Java is kicking C++’s ass. Hell, even flash is kicking C++’s ass. Of course the two year old windows-only C# is coming up fast, so that sort of blows a hole in the “Microsoft is dead” theory.

]]> By: Rich Bryant http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-4648 Rich Bryant Mon, 16 Apr 2007 11:26:28 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/#comment-4648 I'd just also like to note that i get any amount of job-spam from recruitment agencies looking for C++ developers in all kinds of industries, usually for Solaris, linux or Windows development. Java may have "won" if you're a MacBSD evangelist but nobody else seems to think so. I’d just also like to note that i get any amount of job-spam from recruitment agencies looking for C++ developers in all kinds of industries, usually for Solaris, linux or Windows development.

Java may have “won” if you’re a MacBSD evangelist but nobody else seems to think so.

]]> By: Rich Bryant http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-4644 Rich Bryant Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:18:58 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/#comment-4644 In all honesty, i find that documentation is the easiest way to see past a problem. Once you've analysed an issue down into atomic chunks, you can then apply design patterns and use-case goodness to it without getting locked into a code-centric view. Provided you remember that the code is not important and even the network is not really relevant. Those are just the media, not the messages. In all honesty, i find that documentation is the easiest way to see past a problem.

Once you’ve analysed an issue down into atomic chunks, you can then apply design patterns and use-case goodness to it without getting locked into a code-centric view. Provided you remember that the code is not important and even the network is not really relevant. Those are just the media, not the messages.

]]> By: Stephen Taylor http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/comment-page-1/#comment-4635 Stephen Taylor Mon, 16 Apr 2007 08:58:45 +0000 http://programmerjoe.com/2007/04/15/living-in-a-bubble/#comment-4635 If it dominates your life, it's going to dominate your thoughts. I keep my work out of my mind for the most part. But that's because I find my job mundane and uninspiring. If I was passionate about my employment I'm sure I'd spend a lot of my time thinking about how I could do what I do better. Is it right to focus so much? I don't see it as a problem, myself, but I'm sure looking into other things and even other fields can help. If it dominates your life, it’s going to dominate your thoughts. I keep my work out of my mind for the most part. But that’s because I find my job mundane and uninspiring. If I was passionate about my employment I’m sure I’d spend a lot of my time thinking about how I could do what I do better.

Is it right to focus so much? I don’t see it as a problem, myself, but I’m sure looking into other things and even other fields can help.

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